[Becoming a surgeon--at the large community hospital]

There is no correlation between the number of places for surgical education and the real demand for surgeons. In Bavaria 86.7% of all surgeons licensed to train surgeons between 1-6 ys. took part in an inquiry. They asked for 25-30% surgeons in their residency staff but got only 8-24% in reality. In addition 60.2% of all resident wait for a place to finish their surgical training in fully licensed hospitals. In a big community hospital there are no problems for residents to get the needed number of operations. Beside this surgical education should include 6 months clinical training in ICU, 2.5 ys. general, 1.5 trauma and 1 year vascular-thoracis surgery. Basic science and research can be done only in universities, but clinical control of patients outcome, i.e. in tumor patients is mandatory.